Discussion:
The Holocaust: Who Was Responsible?
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Steve Dufour
2005-12-24 20:57:24 UTC
Permalink
http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general429.html

The Holocaust: Who Was Responsible?

June 1995
By Rick Ross

Why did Germans willingly cooperate, support or passively stand by as
six million Jews were exterminated? According to Daniel Goldhagen
author of a new book Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans
and the Holocaust, their mindset was virtually a national psychosis and

the product of a long history of anti-Semitism embedded in German
character. This is the crux of Goldhagen's thesis about the cause of
the Halocaust and it has drawn sharp criticism.

One big hole in this theory is the history of anti-Semitism throughout
Europe such as the Spanish Inquisitions, the expulsion of Jews from
Britain for almost 300 years, Jews restricted and accused of ritual
murder in Poland and let's not forget the depths of French
anti-Semitism exposed through the trial of Alfred Dreyfus. Why didn't
the Holocaust happen elsewhere in Europe? My grandmother told me
stories about Cossack massacres and Russian pogroms, and how my family
fled Poland at the turn of the century to escape persecution, those
that stayed behind were lost in the Holocaust.

I want to believe Goldhagen's easy answers. That only a sick society
plagued by relatively unique cultural hatreds could commit such
horrific crimes. Such conclusions are comforting, but actually fail to
explain Adolph Hitler's Germany. Hitler was the Holocaust. Without
comprehending the scope of Nazi power, there is no understanding of the

Holocaust. Goldhagen's theory trivializes Nazi influence, their powers
of persuasion and Hitler's ability to mold an environment that produced

a mindset capable of genocide.

Nazi Germany was not the only nation in modern history taken over by a
destructive totalitarian regime. The "killing fields" of Cambodia,
cultural revolutions in both China and Iran, Stalin's purges and North
Korea's "Great Leader" are other examples of such terror. Likewise, no
nation is immune to the parallel powers of persuasion used by cults.
Tokyo's subway gassing by Aum and the mass suicide in Switzerland of
members of the Solar Temple are proof of that conclusion.

But my deeper interest lies in understanding the mindset produced by
controlling dictatorial groups and movements. For almost fifteen years
I have studied the process used by cults and radical groups to mold the

minds of members. Hundred of individual interventions have afforded me
an opportunity to unravel these programs of control and provided proof
of their power. I have worked with Waco Davidians, an anti-abortion
militia member and racist skinheads. Learning first-hand how easily
messianic leaders can create hatred, unreasonable fear and make
murderers.

My work began when my grandmother was confronted in a Jewish nursing
home by a crusading proselytizer. Subsequently a self-styled
"Hebrew-Christian" told me that the "Holocaust was God's judgment on
the Jews for rejecting Christ." Friederich Heer, an Austrian Catholic
religious scholar and author concluded, that the "problem of
anti-Semitism can be successfully solved only on this condition: that
outraged Christians become reconciled with themselves, that an
inclusive Christian religion seeks and finds reconciliation with
[people] of other religions and beliefs." Christians like Heer have
given up ethnocentric dogma, but crusades like "Jews for Jesus," prove
that many American "born-again" Christians have not.

The book Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism, by Robert Lifton
examines former prisoners of war, once held within the prison camps of
North Korea. Lifton outlines how people can be changed and control
achieved, by a process chillingly reminiscent of Nazi Germany and not
unlike Orwell's 1984. The process begins with control of an
environment, associations, information, and then demands pure, absolute

commitment to a movement and its leaders. People are told to purge
thoughts not consistent with the program and a pseudo-science develops
that rationalizes the movement placing its claim and validity beyond
question. A special "loaded language" permeates the environment filled
with "thought terminating cliches." These combined elements lock
together programming individuals and producing a mindset that can
control a cult or dominate a nation.

Hitler's Third Reich manipulated the German people through what Lifton
calls the "dispensing of existence." The Nazis drew a sharp line down
"between those whose right to existence can be recognized," the pure
Aryan and "those who possess no such right" such as the Jew, portrayed
by their propaganda as an infestation of vermin. Thus genocide became
fumigation, or as Camus said a "crime of logic." I have witnessed the
effectiveness of such propaganda myself seeing how cult leaders like
Koresh could convince followers that their families were "satanic" and
therefore easily dispense with future communication cutting all ties.
Or, demonizing the government as many militias do enabling adherents to

murder citizens seemingly without conscience.

American history includes the killing of "Indians" labeled as "savages"

in the name of something called "manifest destiny." This racist mindset

rationalized by claims about Christian triumphalism and European
cultural superiority is another example of the "dispensing of
existence." How arrogant it is for Goldhagen to condemn Germans,
ignoring our own troubled history strewn with hate and massacres. I
have seen the same denial when audiences at my lectures insist that
only crazy, troubled people are involved in cults. It could never
happen to them or anyone in their family. Unfortunately the facts
indicate cult members include some of the best and brightest in our
society, often the product of solid loving families.

In Oklahoma City people wonder how someone became the willing
executioner of 170 innocent men, women and children. But there is a
mindset behind the madness at Waco and the bombing of the Murrah
building, a subculture bubbling beneath the surface of our society that

often erupts and explodes. Hitler understood how to exploit old
hatreds, fears and national schisms. He rose to power when Germany was
beset by economic hardship and turmoil, supported by people who wanted
a sense of security. Racism, slavery, the Klan and anti-Semitism are
all part of our history.

Today American are haunted by insecurities. Corporate "down-sizing" and

a highly competitive world market have caused hardships, and led to
fear and anxiety about the future. This has provided a platform for
polemicists, demagogues and would-be messiahs. From LaRouche to Moon,
Buchannon to Bo Gritz cults militias and the politics of hate cater to
fear and seemingly offer a sense of security, thriving on scapegoats
and conspiracy theories.

An astonishing number of Americans are now influenced by conspiracy
theories. A recent poll reported that 34% of American white males
believe citizens have the right to buy and stockpile large amounts of
weapons to oppose the Federal Government. Many believe dark forces now
control the FBI, BLM, IRS, FEMA, UN and Great Britain. Radio Internet
bulletin boards, E mail, Web sites and faxes jam the information
highway with paranoia, hate has gone hi-tech. Government employees have

been threatened by groups like the "Freeman of Jordan, Montana, now
locked in a standoff with the FBI. The Freeman, deeply anti-government
and phobic about the "new world order," have been radically changed by
the influence of their leaders, according to friends, family and
neighbors.

The influence of seemingly disparate, but extreme groups in the United
States has increased through networking. Cults, radical
anti-abortionists, the "Religious right," militias, old hate groups,
the far right and some so-called "conservative Republicans" often work
together. Their common agenda includes attacks on "big government,"
"over regulation" such as gun laws and supposedly returning "power to
the people." These code phrases have become thought terminating
cliches, a facade to mask an attempt to strip power from the only
institution able to hold such groups accountable.

Jerry Falwell attends a seminar sponsored by Moon's Unification church,

which controls the Washington Times, Insight, and The World and I
magazines. Congressman Sonny Bono helps promote the agenda of the
Church of Scientology through an organization called "Parents Involved
in Education which includes many conservative Christians. The "Citizens

Commission on Human Rights," founded by Scientology, pushes a bill in
Florida which would impede child abuse investigators and abolish the
Baker act, the state's psychiatric commitment law. Scientology also has

its own lawyers, not unlike tobacco companies, to harass and silence
critics. I myself have been subjected to such harassment.

Militia groups can rely upon sympathetic ears in Congress like
Representatives Steven Stockman of Texas and Helen Chenowith of Idaho.
Larry Pratt of "Gun Owners of America," who has been linked to militias

and white supremacists, held a high-ranking position in the Buchanan
campaign. Pratt has friends on the NRA board, ties to House majority
leader Richard Armey and has made contributions to Oliver North and
Stockman's campaigns, "Operation Rescue's" Randall Terry's defense
fund, " and Kirk Lyons CAUSE (now defunct). Lyons, a lawyer, once
defended white racists, has ties to the "Aryan Nations" and helped to
start the "Waco Justice Foundation."

The congressional hearing on Waco brought out not only the NRA but cult

apologists like James Tabor, Stuart Wright and Dean Kelley, all
recommend as resources by Scientology. In 1994 Leaders of the German
government called for a ban on Scientology saying it is "not a church
or a religious organization" but "a machine for manipulating human
beings."

According to Goldhagen Germany today is a "remade country." Germans
learned bitter lessons from the Nazi era. It is now illegal for a
German to possess, produce or distribute Nazi materials and a crime to
incite violence. However, the primary source for hate literature today
in Germany is the United States. In 1995 Gary Rex Lauk, of Lincoln,
Nebraska, was arrested in Denmark and extradited by the German
government. Once one of the biggest distributors of neo-Nazi propaganda

in both the United States and Europe, Lauk was the single largest
source in Germany. However, the U.S. refused to cooperate with German
officials citing the Constitution's protection of free speech.

Americans are only just beginning to face the problems posed by radical

groups and cults. Contrary to conspiracy theories promoted by cults,
militias and hate groups, they are not being persecuted by the
government, but seem instead to be rather unfairly exempted from legal
scrutiny. Equal accountability, and enforcement would be a meaningful
step in dealing with such groups. Passing tougher laws regarding hate
crimes and terrorism would help to protect the public. Education about
propaganda, coercive persuasion and undue influence should be offered
at school, along with courses to develop or improve critical thinking
skills.

Hitler changed people into "willing executioners." The Holocaust was
not the product of German culture, but the result of a reign of terror
brought about by the most heinous cult in human history. That tragic
event forced Germans to recognize their vulnerabilities and the dangers

of undue influence. Hopefully, Americans can learn from modern Germany
and find hope in its solutions.
Katipo
2005-12-24 23:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general429.html
The Holocaust: Who Was Responsible?
June 1995
By Rick Ross
Why did Germans willingly cooperate, support or passively stand by as
six million Jews were exterminated? According to Daniel Goldhagen
author of a new book Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans
and the Holocaust, their mindset was virtually a national psychosis and
the product of a long history of anti-Semitism embedded in German
character. This is the crux of Goldhagen's thesis about the cause of
the Halocaust and it has drawn sharp criticism.
One big hole in this theory is the history of anti-Semitism throughout
Europe such as the Spanish Inquisitions, the expulsion of Jews from
Britain for almost 300 years, Jews restricted and accused of ritual
murder in Poland and let's not forget the depths of French
anti-Semitism exposed through the trial of Alfred Dreyfus. Why didn't
the Holocaust happen elsewhere in Europe? My grandmother told me
stories about Cossack massacres and Russian pogroms, and how my family
fled Poland at the turn of the century to escape persecution, those
that stayed behind were lost in the Holocaust.
I want to believe Goldhagen's easy answers. That only a sick society
plagued by relatively unique cultural hatreds could commit such
horrific crimes. Such conclusions are comforting, but actually fail to
explain Adolph Hitler's Germany. Hitler was the Holocaust. Without
comprehending the scope of Nazi power, there is no understanding of the
Holocaust. Goldhagen's theory trivializes Nazi influence, their powers
of persuasion and Hitler's ability to mold an environment that produced
a mindset capable of genocide.
Nazi Germany was not the only nation in modern history taken over by a
destructive totalitarian regime. The "killing fields" of Cambodia,
cultural revolutions in both China and Iran, Stalin's purges and North
Korea's "Great Leader" are other examples of such terror. Likewise, no
nation is immune to the parallel powers of persuasion used by cults.
Tokyo's subway gassing by Aum and the mass suicide in Switzerland of
members of the Solar Temple are proof of that conclusion.
But my deeper interest lies in understanding the mindset produced by
controlling dictatorial groups and movements. For almost fifteen years
I have studied the process used by cults and radical groups to mold the
minds of members. Hundred of individual interventions have afforded me
an opportunity to unravel these programs of control and provided proof
of their power. I have worked with Waco Davidians, an anti-abortion
militia member and racist skinheads. Learning first-hand how easily
messianic leaders can create hatred, unreasonable fear and make
murderers.
My work began when my grandmother was confronted in a Jewish nursing
home by a crusading proselytizer. Subsequently a self-styled
"Hebrew-Christian" told me that the "Holocaust was God's judgment on
the Jews for rejecting Christ." Friederich Heer, an Austrian Catholic
religious scholar and author concluded, that the "problem of
anti-Semitism can be successfully solved only on this condition: that
outraged Christians become reconciled with themselves, that an
inclusive Christian religion seeks and finds reconciliation with
[people] of other religions and beliefs." Christians like Heer have
given up ethnocentric dogma, but crusades like "Jews for Jesus," prove
that many American "born-again" Christians have not.
The book Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism, by Robert Lifton
examines former prisoners of war, once held within the prison camps of
North Korea. Lifton outlines how people can be changed and control
achieved, by a process chillingly reminiscent of Nazi Germany and not
unlike Orwell's 1984. The process begins with control of an
environment, associations, information, and then demands pure, absolute
commitment to a movement and its leaders. People are told to purge
thoughts not consistent with the program and a pseudo-science develops
that rationalizes the movement placing its claim and validity beyond
question. A special "loaded language" permeates the environment filled
with "thought terminating cliches." These combined elements lock
together programming individuals and producing a mindset that can
control a cult or dominate a nation.
Hitler's Third Reich manipulated the German people through what Lifton
calls the "dispensing of existence." The Nazis drew a sharp line down
"between those whose right to existence can be recognized," the pure
Aryan and "those who possess no such right" such as the Jew, portrayed
by their propaganda as an infestation of vermin. Thus genocide became
fumigation, or as Camus said a "crime of logic." I have witnessed the
effectiveness of such propaganda myself seeing how cult leaders like
Koresh could convince followers that their families were "satanic" and
therefore easily dispense with future communication cutting all ties.
Or, demonizing the government as many militias do enabling adherents to
murder citizens seemingly without conscience.
American history includes the killing of "Indians" labeled as "savages"
in the name of something called "manifest destiny." This racist mindset
rationalized by claims about Christian triumphalism and European
cultural superiority is another example of the "dispensing of
existence." How arrogant it is for Goldhagen to condemn Germans,
ignoring our own troubled history strewn with hate and massacres. I
have seen the same denial when audiences at my lectures insist that
only crazy, troubled people are involved in cults. It could never
happen to them or anyone in their family. Unfortunately the facts
indicate cult members include some of the best and brightest in our
society, often the product of solid loving families.
In Oklahoma City people wonder how someone became the willing
executioner of 170 innocent men, women and children. But there is a
mindset behind the madness at Waco and the bombing of the Murrah
building, a subculture bubbling beneath the surface of our society that
often erupts and explodes. Hitler understood how to exploit old
hatreds, fears and national schisms. He rose to power when Germany was
beset by economic hardship and turmoil, supported by people who wanted
a sense of security. Racism, slavery, the Klan and anti-Semitism are
all part of our history.
Today American are haunted by insecurities. Corporate "down-sizing" and
a highly competitive world market have caused hardships, and led to
fear and anxiety about the future. This has provided a platform for
polemicists, demagogues and would-be messiahs. From LaRouche to Moon,
Buchannon to Bo Gritz cults militias and the politics of hate cater to
fear and seemingly offer a sense of security, thriving on scapegoats
and conspiracy theories.
An astonishing number of Americans are now influenced by conspiracy
theories. A recent poll reported that 34% of American white males
believe citizens have the right to buy and stockpile large amounts of
weapons to oppose the Federal Government. Many believe dark forces now
control the FBI, BLM, IRS, FEMA, UN and Great Britain. Radio Internet
bulletin boards, E mail, Web sites and faxes jam the information
highway with paranoia, hate has gone hi-tech. Government employees have
been threatened by groups like the "Freeman of Jordan, Montana, now
locked in a standoff with the FBI. The Freeman, deeply anti-government
and phobic about the "new world order," have been radically changed by
the influence of their leaders, according to friends, family and
neighbors.
The influence of seemingly disparate, but extreme groups in the United
States has increased through networking. Cults, radical
anti-abortionists, the "Religious right," militias, old hate groups,
the far right and some so-called "conservative Republicans" often work
together. Their common agenda includes attacks on "big government,"
"over regulation" such as gun laws and supposedly returning "power to
the people." These code phrases have become thought terminating
cliches, a facade to mask an attempt to strip power from the only
institution able to hold such groups accountable.
Jerry Falwell attends a seminar sponsored by Moon's Unification church,
which controls the Washington Times, Insight, and The World and I
magazines. Congressman Sonny Bono helps promote the agenda of the
Church of Scientology through an organization called "Parents Involved
in Education which includes many conservative Christians. The "Citizens
Commission on Human Rights," founded by Scientology, pushes a bill in
Florida which would impede child abuse investigators and abolish the
Baker act, the state's psychiatric commitment law. Scientology also has
its own lawyers, not unlike tobacco companies, to harass and silence
critics. I myself have been subjected to such harassment.
Militia groups can rely upon sympathetic ears in Congress like
Representatives Steven Stockman of Texas and Helen Chenowith of Idaho.
Larry Pratt of "Gun Owners of America," who has been linked to militias
and white supremacists, held a high-ranking position in the Buchanan
campaign. Pratt has friends on the NRA board, ties to House majority
leader Richard Armey and has made contributions to Oliver North and
Stockman's campaigns, "Operation Rescue's" Randall Terry's defense
fund, " and Kirk Lyons CAUSE (now defunct). Lyons, a lawyer, once
defended white racists, has ties to the "Aryan Nations" and helped to
start the "Waco Justice Foundation."
The congressional hearing on Waco brought out not only the NRA but cult
apologists like James Tabor, Stuart Wright and Dean Kelley, all
recommend as resources by Scientology. In 1994 Leaders of the German
government called for a ban on Scientology saying it is "not a church
or a religious organization" but "a machine for manipulating human
beings."
According to Goldhagen Germany today is a "remade country." Germans
learned bitter lessons from the Nazi era. It is now illegal for a
German to possess, produce or distribute Nazi materials and a crime to
incite violence. However, the primary source for hate literature today
in Germany is the United States. In 1995 Gary Rex Lauk, of Lincoln,
Nebraska, was arrested in Denmark and extradited by the German
government. Once one of the biggest distributors of neo-Nazi propaganda
in both the United States and Europe, Lauk was the single largest
source in Germany. However, the U.S. refused to cooperate with German
officials citing the Constitution's protection of free speech.
Americans are only just beginning to face the problems posed by radical
groups and cults. Contrary to conspiracy theories promoted by cults,
militias and hate groups, they are not being persecuted by the
government, but seem instead to be rather unfairly exempted from legal
scrutiny. Equal accountability, and enforcement would be a meaningful
step in dealing with such groups. Passing tougher laws regarding hate
crimes and terrorism would help to protect the public. Education about
propaganda, coercive persuasion and undue influence should be offered
at school, along with courses to develop or improve critical thinking
skills.
Hitler changed people into "willing executioners." The Holocaust was
not the product of German culture, but the result of a reign of terror
brought about by the most heinous cult in human history. That tragic
event forced Germans to recognize their vulnerabilities and the dangers
of undue influence. Hopefully, Americans can learn from modern Germany
and find hope in its solutions.
Approximately how many Jews left Europe for places like Palestine and the US
after world war two. Between say 1945 and 1950?
hello
2005-12-24 21:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
six million Jews were exterminated
hmm, stop lying.
Topaz
2005-12-25 00:56:57 UTC
Permalink
"Holocaust revisionism, ie, the examination of the supposed
genociding of Jews in the Third Reich. The generally-accepted version
of this event -- or, more properly, this NON-event -- is what I call
the Orthodox Jewish Version of the Holocaust, or OJV for short, which
holds in its present version that the nazis killed 'six million' Jews
in 'gas chambers'. As it happens, however, there are numerous problems
with the OJV. The following is a list of the major ones.

* The 'evidence' for the OJV consists primarily of the records of the
court proceedings of the Nuremberg trials. As it happens, however,
vengeful Jews were largely in charge of these trials. (According to
Louis Marshalko in his book The World Conquerers, of the 3000 persons
on the trial staff, 2400 were Jews.) Adding to the problem was the
fact that (1) there was no historical precedent for war crimes trials
in which only the vanquished were called to account for their actions;
and (2) these trials violated the fundamental principle of fairness
that no one is to be tried for violating a law that was instituted 'ex
post facto', ie, after the crime was committed.

* 'Confessions' used in the trial were highly dubious, since many were
extracted by torture or or other unethical means, such as threatening
the families of the accused (According to British scholar Vivian Bird,
more than one hundred German defendants had their testicles beaten to
a pulp by 'interrogators'.) Two confessions were particularly
egregious: That of Rudolf Hoss, commandant of Auschwitz, which was
(among other things) written in a language he did not even understand,
and which provided the major basis for the 'six million' figure; and
that of Kurt Gerstein, the dubiousness of which was the subject of a
French doctoral dissertation.

* Many of the atrocities that were seriously alleged at the trials are
now rejected by even establishment historians as false, the most
prominent of which are the stories that Jewish bodies were made into
soap and their skin was made into lampshades. Evidently such stories
were created as war propaganda, just as were similar stories in WW1
about 'Huns' who were 'bayonetting babies'.

* The defendants in the trials had no opportunity to gather evidence
in their defense, and in addition were often given poor food,
subjected to freezing weather without proper clothing, deprived of
sleep, and -- as stated earlier -- often brutally beaten. Furthermore,
those who were condemned to death had their sentences postponed until
they could be carried out on the Jewish High Holy Days in a sort of
'blood libel' celebration.

* The printed trial transcripts often do not match the trial
recordings, and were evidently deliberately changed to cover up
embarrassing facts brought out by defendants in their trials.

* Auschwitz was not a 'death camp', as alleged at the trials, but a
large industrial complex in Poland, and the inmates were forced
laborers. The nazis were desperate for labor, so it would have been
irrational for them to have 'gassed' anyone, and equally irrational
for them to have mistreated inmates or underfed them. In fact, there
was a special court, under SS Judge Konrad Morgen, to try complaints
against camp personnel for abusing inmates. Beyond this, Heinrich
Himmler, who held principal authority over the camps, sent a memo to
all camp commandants stating that inmate deaths must be reduced 'at
all costs' -- hardly something one would expect to find in a 'death
camp'. And while it was alleged at the trials that 4 million Jews were
'gassed' at Auschwitz, the German camp records were not admitted into
evidence, and would probably have vindicated many of the defendants if
they had been. In particular, the Auschwitz death books, which were
released by the Russian government about a decade ago, show that only
about 74,000 people died at Auschwitz in all the years of its
operation, most from typhus, with only about 30,000 of them being
Jews. Furthermore, the crematoria were intended not for the 'killing
of Jews', but rather for the sanitary disposal of the bodies of those
who died from typhus.

* While there were Allied spies in most camps reporting on camp
conditions by radio, none of these spies ever made a report about mass
killings or 'gas chambers'. The idea of 'gas chambers' evidently arose
from the fact that all the clothes of arriving inmates were
disinfected in a kind of gas chamber in which Zyklon B was used to
kill lice which were feared as disease vectors (Lousy Jews?). These
delousing chambers, it should be noted, were far too small for killing
people, particularly in the numbers posited by the OJV. It should also
be noted that Zyklon B, the form of cyanide supposedly used to kill
Jews, was in fact a special form of slow- release cyanide which was
appropriate for de-lousing clothing, but inappropriate for the
instantaneous killing that was supposedly done in the "gas chambers".
(The irony of Germans being accused of killing Jews by an instrument
which they (Germans) used for preserving Jewish lives should not go
unnoticed.) In addition, as revisionists have noted, such killings
would have been impossible on the scale claimed by the OJV because
cyanide is so dangerous that the bodies would have had to lie for
hours before they could be safely removed, even by those wearing
protective clothing and gas masks. Beyond this, cyanide gas is
explosive, so that any little spark, as from the friction of shoes on
the floor, or any flame, as from a cigaret, would have caused any 'gas
chamber' to be transported to the place where it was supposedly
sending Jews.

* Revisionists have proved that the rooms alleged to be 'gas chambers'
could not possibly have served this purpose. The first investigation
of this problem was done not for the Nuremberg trials, but rather many
years later by Fred Leuchter, an American engineer and execution
expert, who took samples from the walls of supposed 'gas chambers' at
several camps and found that there was essentially no cyanide residue
-- an impossibility if the rooms had been used as alleged. (Altho
Leuchter's work was flawed, his conclusions have been confirmed
independently by two other experts, Walter Luftl and Germar Rudolf.)
Other problems posed for the OJV by the alleged 'gas chambers' involve
such things as no air circulatory system for dispersing or ventilating
the gas, no means for heating the Zyklon B discs for proper dispersal,
the fact that the doors of the 'gas chambers' opened from the INSIDE,
and that Allied aerial photographs of Auschwitz during the war showed
no holes in the roof of the supposed 'gas chambers' which would have
allowed the introduction of Zyklon B -- a point made by Holocaust
revisionists in their oft-repeated challenge, "No holes; no
Holocaust!"

* There is no good evidence that nazi references to the 'final
solution to the Jewish question' referred to anything other than
removal of Jews from the area of the Third Reich, the (false)
allegations about the Wansee Conference notwithstanding. In
particular, no 'Hitler order' (or order from anyone else) has ever
been discovered, in spite of the known German propensity for extensive
record-keeping, altho there is an internal memo of a phone
conversation with Hitler signed by Hans Lemmerer of the Ministry of
the Interior showing that Hitler wanted the solution of the Jewish
problem SHELVED until the end of the war. Beyond this, the nazis
actually cooperated with the Zionists under the so-called Transfer
Agreement ("Ha'avara") to train Jews for settlement in Palestine, and
the training camps for Zionists were the only places in nazi Germany
in which the flag of the Zionist state was allowed to fly.

* Jewish population numbers published in standard reference works both
before and after the war do not show a decrease of Jewish numbers, but
rather an INCREASE. These reference works also demonstrate that THERE
WERE NOT EVEN SIX MILLION JEWS IN NAZI-OCCUPIED EUROPE
DURING THE PERIOD.

* The 'six million' is a mystical number derived from Jewish
scripture, and in particular is the number of Jews who are said to be
required to die before Israel can be re-established. This accounts for
why "New York governor Martin Glynn, in a major Albany speech in
October 1919 [that's TWENTY YEARS BEFORE THE START OF
WORLD WAR TWO, for all you who are a tad weak on dates], reported at
length on the 'holocaust [of] six million Jewish men and women' who
were dying due to the 'awful tyranny of war and a bigoted lust for
Jewish blood' during the 'Great War'" (Irena Zdiarska, "Holocaust Is
Undeniable -- But Should Be Debated", Barnes Review Oct 94: 27)). It
also accounts for the fact that, in spite of the formal reduction from
4 to 1.1 million of the number of Jews claimed to have been killed at
Auschwitz (see pix of Auschwitz plaques below), the 'six million'
number has never changed, and thus that in the Orwellian Kabbalistic
mathematics on which it is based, six minus three still equals six.


* The OJV has changed significantly over the years. We have already
mentioned that the 'soap' and 'lampshade' allegations are now rejected
by even establishment historians, altho this does not keep Jews from
continuing to hold burial ceremonies for newly-discovered bars of old
Reich soap (we don't know whether they have also done the same for
lampshades.) Another feature of the original OJV that has now changed
was the allegation that Jews were exterminated at the camps in Germany
as well as Poland -- an allegation which has been abandoned for some
time. Yet another abandoned allegation is that mass killings were
carried out by means of steam, electricity, gas vans (using the
exhaust), and burning in pits; and in fact, the Holocaust received its
name from the latter allegation -- yet another irony of this congeries
of lies.

* The one thing which has done most to convince people that the
allegations of German atrocities are true is the film clips we have
all seen of the liberation of the concentration camps, in which bodies
are shown piled high, and surviving inmates are seen to be little more
than walking skeletons. But in fact these admittedly-shocking films do
not make a case for German atrocities, and in fact actually refute the
notion of "gas chambers": If Germans were gassing Jews by the
millions, as the OJV alleges, then Jews simply would not be around
long enuf to starve, as the "walking skeletons" and emaciated bodies
of the dead obviously were doing. The starvation, it should be noted,
was simply a reflection of the fact that, toward the end of the war,
the German supply lines had broken down, and food was not getting to
the camps. And above all, one should not think that there is anything
unique to Germany about "walking skeletons" in "concentration camps":
Exactly the same thing happened at the Andersonville prison during the
American Civil War, and the nearby photo is a picture of one of those
inmates.

* If there is any one thing which is a clinching argument to the
matter of the OJV, it is the fact that it is illegal to openly express
doubt about this story in most countries of the Western world,
including Germany (of course!), Israel (of course!), Austria (of
course!), Spain, France, Australia, and Canada; and in those few
countries in which it is not illegal, the laws forbidding 'race hate'
are increasingly being interpreted as forbidding such expression. The
point here is that fact does not require the support of legislation --
only falsehood does. And of course it does not take a rocket scientist
to figure who is behind this illegalization; nor does it take a rocket
scientist to figure why cases of 'Holocaust denial' are so vigorously
prosecuted: Jews, and particularly Israel, have profited in numerous
ways and by billions of dollars in playing this scam, including an
unending number of Holocaust movies (more than 400 at last count,
according to scholar Michael Hoffman), Holocaust museums (popping up
everywhere), Holocaust books (Elie 'The Weasel' Wiesel has written
more than 30; The Diary of Anne Frank is a perennial best- seller,
etc, etc, etc), TV dramas (the airing of "Holocaust' in 1970 is when
the scam really took off), 'survivors' by the millions -- all
pensioned by the German government, shakedowns of companies which
supposedly profited from 'slave labor' or were otherwise tinged by
Third- Reich-related activities (eg, IBM, Swiss banks), and of course
the billions in 'reparations', 'foreign aid' and other 'guilt money'
showered on Israel by Germany and the US. It has gotten so bad that
Jewish Professor Norman Finkelstein calls it "The Holocaust Industry"
in
his book by the same name, where he quotes his mother as asking, "If
Hitler killed so many Jews, then where did all the 'survivors' come
from?" No need to explain, then, why there is a saying among Jews that
"There's no business like Shoah (Holocaust) business."

* The only facts that come within even a country mile of supporting
the contention of nazi extermination of Jews are reports of the
shootings on the Eastern front of communist partisans, many of whom
were Jews. The following is what Lawrence Nevers has had to say on the
subject:

continued"

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Jews/Jews-HoloRev.html

http://www.nationalvanguard.org http://www.natvan.com
http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.RealNews247.com
Kenneth McVay OBC
2005-12-25 01:44:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
"Holocaust revisionism, ie, the examination of the supposed
genociding of Jews in the Third Reich. The generally-accepted version
Mr. Vangel forgot to mention that he thinks murder is a dandy way to
deal with "problem" children.

Here is a quote from Alex Vangel:

"I said I agreed with the Bible because it is against the
homosexual perverts, the feminists, and the Jews. This is
what it says about delinquents:

"Deuteronomy 21:18-21
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will
not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother,
and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto
them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him,
and bring him out unto the elders of the city, and unto the
gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his
city, This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not
obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the
men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die:
so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel
shall hear, and fear." (UseNet alt.revisionism. Subject:
"Re: More crap from the VangelBot," 31 Jan. 2001. Message-ID:
***@spamkiller.newsgroups.com)

Note that this quote from Mr. Vangel says nothing about
"homosexual perverts, the feminists, and the Jews," as he
suggested. Yet he cites it to justify the murder of children
whose only crime was that of being found "unruly" by Adolf
Hitler's murdering thugs.

For information about Mr. Vangel's hate group, see
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/christian-identity
--
"In the final analysis, one does not refute a closed system, a total
lie that is not refutable to the extent that its conclusions has
preceded any evidence." (Vidal-Naquet, Pierre. Assassins of Memory,
New York: Columbia University Press. p.81)
Katipo
2005-12-25 20:17:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
* Jewish population numbers published in standard reference works both
before and after the war do not show a decrease of Jewish numbers, but
rather an INCREASE. These reference works also demonstrate that THERE
WERE NOT EVEN SIX MILLION JEWS IN NAZI-OCCUPIED EUROPE
DURING THE PERIOD.
That increase, at least, may not be entirely correct.

Figures I have found on the net indicate the number of jews in Europe was
about 9.5 million in 1933 and aaaaaabout 3.5 million in 1950. This is a drop
of (coincidently I assume) 6 million.

When you must then subtract from that figure the (approximately) 1.5 million
who left Europe between 1933 and 1945, those who left between 1945 and 1950,
and those who died during they war from disease, natural causes, war actions
(bombings etc) and other "non extermination" causes.

It seems that at the very least the figure of 6 million exterminated is
grossly exaggerated.

Does anyone know who many Jews left Europe for Palestine, the US etc between
1945 and 1950? I have been unable to find these figures.

Don't get me wrong, I have have nothing against Jews (I have had, at least,
several jewish friends over the years) and regardless of who you believe
they clearly were put through hell during the war, by the Nazis. However I
believe it is evident that we are not being told the full truth and it is
time we were.

Katipo
Ron Jacobson
2005-12-25 20:24:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katipo
That increase, at least, may not be entirely correct.
Figures I have found on the net
"found on the net".
Post by Katipo
indicate the number of jews in Europe was
about 9.5 million in 1933 and aaaaaabout 3.5 million in 1950. This is a drop
of (coincidently I assume) 6 million.
When you must then subtract from that figure the (approximately) 1.5 million
who left Europe between 1933 and 1945,
Source for the 1.5 million figure?

RJ.
Katipo
2005-12-26 02:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ron Jacobson
Post by Katipo
That increase, at least, may not be entirely correct.
Figures I have found on the net
"found on the net".
Post by Katipo
indicate the number of jews in Europe was
about 9.5 million in 1933 and aaaaaabout 3.5 million in 1950. This is a drop
of (coincidently I assume) 6 million.
When you must then subtract from that figure the (approximately) 1.5 million
who left Europe between 1933 and 1945,
Source for the 1.5 million figure?
RJ.
I found it on the net.
Roger
2005-12-26 02:24:17 UTC
Permalink
In one age, called the Second Age by some,
(an Age yet to come, an Age long past)
Post by Katipo
Post by Ron Jacobson
Post by Katipo
That increase, at least, may not be entirely correct.
Figures I have found on the net
"found on the net".
Post by Katipo
indicate the number of jews in Europe was
about 9.5 million in 1933 and aaaaaabout 3.5 million in 1950. This is a drop
of (coincidently I assume) 6 million.
When you must then subtract from that figure the (approximately) 1.5 million
who left Europe between 1933 and 1945,
Source for the 1.5 million figure?
I found it on the net.
And yet you cannot say *where* on the net.

Funny, that...
Ron Jacobson
2005-12-26 06:30:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katipo
Post by Ron Jacobson
Post by Katipo
That increase, at least, may not be entirely correct.
Figures I have found on the net
"found on the net".
Post by Katipo
indicate the number of jews in Europe was
about 9.5 million in 1933 and aaaaaabout 3.5 million in 1950. This is a
drop of (coincidently I assume) 6 million.
When you must then subtract from that figure the (approximately) 1.5 million
who left Europe between 1933 and 1945,
Source for the 1.5 million figure?
I found it on the net.
Wow.

RJ.
Kenneth McVay OBC
2005-12-26 06:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katipo
Post by Ron Jacobson
Post by Katipo
That increase, at least, may not be entirely correct.
Figures I have found on the net
"found on the net".
Post by Katipo
indicate the number of jews in Europe was
about 9.5 million in 1933 and aaaaaabout 3.5 million in 1950. This is a
drop of (coincidently I assume) 6 million.
When you must then subtract from that figure the (approximately) 1.5 million
who left Europe between 1933 and 1945,
Source for the 1.5 million figure?
I found it on the net.
Wow.
Yep, it's true. Another leading "revisionist scholar" has joined our discussion.
--
The Nizkor Project - An electronic Holocaust educational resource
David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgment
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
Topaz
2005-12-26 01:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katipo
That increase, at least, may not be entirely correct.
Figures I have found on the net indicate the number of jews in Europe was
about 9.5 million in 1933 and aaaaaabout 3.5 million in 1950. This is a drop
of (coincidently I assume) 6 million.
<http://www.ety.com/tell/books/jgjewstats/03.htm>

[ . . . ] Furthermore, regardless of how you define a Jew, the
statistics about the Jewish world population are very contradictory
and suspect from the very beginning because the figures are more often
than not furnished by the Jewish organizations, which evidently have
to respect the Holocaust dogma according to which roughy one third of
the Jews were exterminated during World War Two. The leading pre-war
expert on Jewish population statistics, Arthur Ruppin, stated that
there were 16.7 million Jews in the world in 1939 (13). For the
immediate postwar years, the World Almanac gave the following figures:
15.19 million in 1945 and 15.7 million in the following four years,
from 1946 to
1949. But it its 1949 issue, the World Almanac quoted the figures
furnished by the American Jewish commitee according to which there had
been 16.6 million Jews in 1939 and only 11.2 million in 1947 (14). On
the other hand, in an article published in the Jewish-owned New York
Times in early 1948, Hanson Baldwin, a military expert and specialist
on Palestine, stated that there were between 15 and 18 million Jews
worldwide...

"In other words, "statistics" from Jewish organizations tend to
"prove" that 5 to 6 million died or disappeared during WWII (surprise
surprise), while those from more neutral sources show that the Jewish
world population remained about the same, or increased slightly, over
the war years."

Seneca
Post by Katipo
When you must then subtract from that figure the (approximately) 1.5 million
who left Europe between 1933 and 1945, those who left between 1945 and 1950,
and those who died during they war from disease, natural causes, war actions
(bombings etc) and other "non extermination" causes.
It seems that at the very least the figure of 6 million exterminated is
grossly exaggerated.
Does anyone know who many Jews left Europe for Palestine, the US etc between
1945 and 1950? I have been unable to find these figures.
Don't get me wrong, I have have nothing against Jews (I have had, at least,
several jewish friends over the years) and regardless of who you believe
they clearly were put through hell during the war, by the Nazis.
ADOLF HITLER
SCHWERIN, GUSTLOFF'S FUNERAL
SPEECH OF FEBRUARY 12, 1936

. . . BEHIND every murder stood the same power which is responsible
for this murder; behind these harmless insignificant fellow-countrymen
who were instigated and incited to crime stands the hate-filled power
of our Jewish foe, a foe to whom we had done no harm, but who none the
less sought to subjugate our German people and make of it its slave -
the foe who is responsible for all the misfortune that fell upon us in
1918, for all the misfortune which plagued Germany in the years that
followed. Those members of the Party and honorable comrades of ours
all fell, and the same fate was planned for others: many hundreds
survived as cripples or severely wounded, blinded or lamed; more than
40,000 others were injured. And among them were so many loyal folk
whom we all knew and who were near and dear to us, of whom we were
sure that they could never do any harm to anyone, that they had never
done any harm to anyone, whose only crime was that they devoted
themselves to the cause of Germany.

In the ranks of those whose lives were thus sacrificed there stood
also Horst Wessel, the singer who gave to the Movement its song, never
dreaming that he would join those spirits who march and have marched
with us.

And now on foreign soil National Socialism has gained its first
conscious martyr - a man who did nothing save to enter the lists for
Germany which is not only his sacred right but his duty in this world:
a man who did nothing save remember his homeland and pledge himself to
her in loyalty. He, too, was murdered, just like so many others. Even
at the time when on January 30 three years ago we had come into power,
precisely the same things happened in Germany, at Frankfort on the
Oder, at Köpenick, and again at Brunswick. The procedure was always
the same: a few men come and call someone out of his house and then
stab or shoot him down.

That is no chance: it is the same guiding hand which organized these
crimes and purposes to do so again. Now for the first time one who is
responsible for these acts has appeared in his own person. For the
first time he employs no harmless German fellow-countryman. It is a
title to fame for Switzerland, as it is for our own Germans in
Switzerland, that no one let himself be hired to do this deed so that
for the first time the spiritual begetter of the act must himself
perform the act. So our comrade has fallen a victim to that power
which wages a fanatical warfare not only against our German people but
against every free, autonomous, and independent people. We understand
the challenge to battle and we take up the gage! My dear comrade! You
have not fallen in vain!
Post by Katipo
However I
believe it is evident that we are not being told the full truth and it is
time we were.
http://www.nationalvanguard.org http://www.natvan.com
http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.RealNews247.com
Kenneth McVay OBC
2005-12-26 05:20:22 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>,
Alex 'Topaz' Vangel <***@hotmail.com> wrote:

Mr. Vangel forgot to mention that he thinks murder is a dandy way to
deal with "problem" children.

Here is a quote from Alex Vangel:

"I said I agreed with the Bible because it is against the
homosexual perverts, the feminists, and the Jews. This is
what it says about delinquents:

"Deuteronomy 21:18-21
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will
not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother,
and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto
them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him,
and bring him out unto the elders of the city, and unto the
gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his
city, This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not
obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the
men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die:
so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel
shall hear, and fear." (UseNet alt.revisionism. Subject:
"Re: More crap from the VangelBot," 31 Jan. 2001. Message-ID:
***@spamkiller.newsgroups.com)

Note that this quote from Mr. Vangel says nothing about
"homosexual perverts, the feminists, and the Jews," as he
suggested. Yet he cites it to justify the murder of children
whose only crime was that of being found "unruly" by Adolf
Hitler's murdering thugs.

For information about Mr. Vangel's hate group, see
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/christian-identity
--
The Nizkor Project - An electronic Holocaust educational resource
David Irving vrs. Deborah Lipstadt & Penguin Books Ltd: Judgment
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/i/irving-david/judgment-00-00.html
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/i/irving.david/libel.suit
Steve Dufour
2005-12-26 15:23:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katipo
Post by Topaz
* Jewish population numbers published in standard reference works both
before and after the war do not show a decrease of Jewish numbers, but
rather an INCREASE. These reference works also demonstrate that THERE
WERE NOT EVEN SIX MILLION JEWS IN NAZI-OCCUPIED EUROPE
DURING THE PERIOD.
That increase, at least, may not be entirely correct.
Figures I have found on the net indicate the number of jews in Europe was
about 9.5 million in 1933 and aaaaaabout 3.5 million in 1950. This is a drop
of (coincidently I assume) 6 million.
When you must then subtract from that figure the (approximately) 1.5 million
who left Europe between 1933 and 1945, those who left between 1945 and 1950,
and those who died during they war from disease, natural causes, war actions
(bombings etc) and other "non extermination" causes.
It seems that at the very least the figure of 6 million exterminated is
grossly exaggerated.
Does anyone know who many Jews left Europe for Palestine, the US etc between
1945 and 1950? I have been unable to find these figures.
Don't get me wrong, I have have nothing against Jews (I have had, at least,
several jewish friends over the years) and regardless of who you believe
they clearly were put through hell during the war, by the Nazis. However I
believe it is evident that we are not being told the full truth and it is
time we were.
Katipo
I'm glad you are trying to look at things in a logical way. That is
rare on Usenet. However you also have to add in the number of Jewish
children born during that time, especially in the after-war "baby
boom". There also might be some people who did not identify
themselves as Jews to the census takers in various countries in the
30's but did in the 50's.
Katipo
2005-12-27 22:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
I'm glad you are trying to look at things in a logical way. That is
rare on Usenet. However you also have to add in the number of Jewish
children born during that time, especially in the after-war "baby
boom".
Any idea of the number of births involved?
Katipo
2005-12-27 23:10:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katipo
Post by Steve Dufour
I'm glad you are trying to look at things in a logical way. That is
rare on Usenet. However you also have to add in the number of Jewish
children born during that time, especially in the after-war "baby
boom".
Any idea of the number of births involved?
See table 2 on this page:
http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/concepts/demography/demtables.html#2

This says the world's jewish population stood at 11 million in 1945 and
11.297 million in 1950, an increase of 297,000.

Given my previously quoted figure of 3.5 million jews in Europe in 1950 this
(the 3.5mill) represents 30.98% of the total above for the world. This
suggests that of the increase of 297,000 only 92,000 (30.98% of 297k)
occured in Europe. In my view the actual increase in Europe is likely to be
much less because of the poor state of health many of Europe's jews were
likely to have been in immediately after the war.
Joe Bruno
2005-12-28 09:58:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Topaz
"Holocaust revisionism, ie, the examination of the supposed
genociding of Jews in the Third Reich. The generally-accepted version
of this event -- or, more properly, this NON-event -- is what I call
the Orthodox Jewish Version of the Holocaust, or OJV for short, which
holds in its present version that the nazis killed 'six million' Jews
in 'gas chambers'.
This is more of Topaz lies.


No one except idiots claims six million were killed in gas chambers.

There were no gas chambers in the USSR, Warsaw, or Lodz. Jews there
were shot or starved to death.
Post by Topaz
* The 'evidence' for the OJV consists primarily of the records of the
court proceedings of the Nuremberg trials. As it happens, however,
vengeful Jews were largely in charge of these trials. (According to
Louis Marshalko in his book The World Conquerers, of the 3000 persons
on the trial staff, 2400 were Jews.)
Nonsense. Most of the research at Nuremberg was done by British and
American army personnel. Since Jews were tiny minorities in both these
countries, it is impossible for their armies to be dominated by large
numbers of Jews.








Adding to the problem was the
Post by Topaz
fact that (1) there was no historical precedent for war crimes trials
in which only the vanquished were called to account for their actions;
That's another lie. There were war crimes trials held after the
American Civil War and WWI.
War crimes committed by Americans or Brits or other Allies during the
war were dealt with in military court martials. That's what military
regulations are for.
Mr Vangel should take a look at the Uniform Code of Military Justice,
which governs the conduct of all American armed forces.

War Crimes trials of the losers can 't be held until you have defeated
them and have them in custody.
Post by Topaz
and (2) these trials violated the fundamental principle of fairness
that no one is to be tried for violating a law that was instituted 'ex
post facto', ie, after the crime was committed.
Nonsense.

Use of Slave labor violates the Hague convention
Mistreatment of pOWs(as at Malmedy) violates the Geneva Convention
Murder of unarmed civilians was not legal anywhere in Europe in 1939.
kilgore trout
2005-12-29 19:30:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bruno
Post by Topaz
"Holocaust revisionism, ie, the examination of the supposed
genociding of Jews in the Third Reich. The generally-accepted version
of this event -- or, more properly, this NON-event -- is what I call
the Orthodox Jewish Version of the Holocaust, or OJV for short, which
holds in its present version that the nazis killed 'six million' Jews
in 'gas chambers'.
This is more of Topaz lies.
No one except idiots claims six million were killed in gas chambers.
There were no gas chambers in the USSR, Warsaw, or Lodz. Jews there
were shot or starved to death.
Post by Topaz
* The 'evidence' for the OJV consists primarily of the records of the
court proceedings of the Nuremberg trials. As it happens, however,
vengeful Jews were largely in charge of these trials. (According to
Louis Marshalko in his book The World Conquerers, of the 3000 persons
on the trial staff, 2400 were Jews.)
Nonsense. Most of the research at Nuremberg was done by British and
American army personnel. Since Jews were tiny minorities in both these
countries, it is impossible for their armies to be dominated by large
numbers of Jews.
Adding to the problem was the
Post by Topaz
fact that (1) there was no historical precedent for war crimes trials
in which only the vanquished were called to account for their actions;
That's another lie. There were war crimes trials held after the
American Civil War and WWI.
War crimes committed by Americans or Brits or other Allies during the
war were dealt with in military court martials. That's what military
regulations are for.
Mr Vangel should take a look at the Uniform Code of Military Justice,
which governs the conduct of all American armed forces.
War Crimes trials of the losers can 't be held until you have defeated
them and have them in custody.
Post by Topaz
and (2) these trials violated the fundamental principle of fairness
that no one is to be tried for violating a law that was instituted 'ex
post facto', ie, after the crime was committed.
Nonsense.
Use of Slave labor violates the Hague convention
Mistreatment of pOWs(as at Malmedy) violates the Geneva Convention
Murder of unarmed civilians was not legal anywhere in Europe in 1939.
I think Russia was amply represented. Ilya
Ehrenburg was a Jew. In fact the communist party
was predominately Jewish. ANy data from the east
had to come from Russia. But y'know what gets
me..after seeing those AbuGhraib pics, I wonder
how come the Germans took so few pics. I have seen
almost every holo picture. Some are used over and
over. I have never seen a human pyramid or a guy
with underwear on his head, electrodes, or even
laughing SS guards. All the pics look pretty much
generic. Lines of people or piles of
bodies?(Airraid victims?camp vics, prewar
gulag?)Question:How come the Germans who all have
cameras..didnt take any pictures? Dont Germans
have any imagination? Sense of humor?Whats their
problem?
B TW there is a large body of evidence that the
Malmedy thing might have been an accidnet. They
were caught in a crossfire while being walked to
the reAR.
p***@aol.com
2005-12-29 22:48:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by kilgore trout
I think Russia was amply represented. Ilya
Ehrenburg was a Jew. In fact the communist party
was predominately Jewish.
No, the Communist Part was overwhelming Gentile, at all stages.

You repeat nonsense.
Post by kilgore trout
B TW there is a large body of evidence that the
Malmedy thing might have been an accidnet. They
were caught in a crossfire while being walked to
the reAR.
Nonsense. There is no such evidence.

--
Philip Mathews
Topaz
2006-01-02 20:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Article Winston Churchill wrote in 1920:

"This movement amongst the Jews (the Russian Revolution) is not new.
From the days of Spartacus Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down
to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany)
and Emma Goldman (United States), this world wide conspiracy for the
overthrow of civilization and the reconstruction of society on the
basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible
equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer,
Mrs. Nesta Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognizable part
in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of
every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at
last this band of extraordinary personalities has gripped the Russian
people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the
undisputed masters of that enormous empire. There is no need to
exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the
actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by these international
and for the most part atheistic Jews. Moreover, the principal
inspiration and driving power comes from Jewish leaders." (ibid)


Lev Trotzky wrote a book called "Stalin: An Appraisal of the Man
and His Influence", Harper Bros., New York and London, 1941,
translated by Charles Malamuth.

In this book he told who the principle members of the October
Central Committee were. This group was the leadership of the Bolshevik
Party during the October Revolution. This is what he wrote:

"In view of the Party's semi-legality the names of persons
elected by secret ballot were not announced at the Congress, with the
exception of the four who had recieved the largest number of votes.
Lenin--133 out of a possible 134, Zinoviev--132, Kamenev--131,
Trotzky--131."

Of these four top leaders of the Bolshevik Party the last three
were known Jews. Lenin was thought to be a gentile married to a
Jewess. It was later proven that he was one quarter Jewish, London
Jewish Chronicle April 21, 1995, Lenin: Life and Legacy.

David Francis, the American Ambassador to Russia at the time of the
Revolution, wrote:

"The Bolshevic leaders here, most of whom are Jews and 90 percent
of whom are returned exiles, care little for Russia or any other
country but are internationalists and they are trying to start a
world-wide revolution."

The Director of British Intelligence to the U.S. Secretary of State
wrote this:

"There is now definite evidence that Bolshevism is an international
movement controlled by Jews."

In 1945 the FBI arrested six individuals for stealing 1700 highly
confidential documents from State Department files. This was the
Amerasia case they were:

Philip Jaffe, a Russian Jew who came to the U.S. in 1905. He was at
one time the editor of the communist paper "Labor Defense" and the
ringleader of the group arrested.

Andrew Roth, a Jew.

Mark Gayn, a Jew, changed his name from Julius Ginsberg.

John Service, a gentile.

Emmanuel Larsen, nationality unknown

Kate Mitchel, nationality unknown.

In 1949 the Jewess Judith Coplin was caught passing classified
documents from Justice Department files to a Russian agent.

The highest ranking communist brought to trial in the U.S. was
Gerhart Eisler. He was a Jew. He was the secret boss of the Communist
Party in the U.S. and commuted regularly between the U.S. and Russia.

In 1950 there was the "Hollywood Ten" case. Ten leading film
writers of the Hollywood Film Colony were convicted for contempt of
Congress and sentanced to prison. Nine of the ten were Jews. Six of
the ten were communist party members and the other four were
flagrantly pro-communist.

One of the top new stories of 1949 was the trial of Eugene Dennis
and the Convicted Eleven. This group comprised the National
Secretariat of the American Communist Party. Six were Jews, two
gentiles, three nationality unknown.

Also in 1949 the German-born atomic scientist Klaus Fuchs was
convicted for passing atomic secrets to the Russians. Acting on
information obtained from Fuchs the FBI arrested nine other members of
the ring. All of them were convicted. Eight of the nine were Jews.

Here are some quotes from a very pro-Jewish book that was first
published in 1925. The book is "Stranger than Fiction" by Lewis
Browne.

"But save for such exceptions, the Jews who led or participated
in the heroic efforts to remold the world of the last century, were
neither Reform or Orthodox. Indeed, they were often not professing
Jews at all.
"For instance, there was Heinrich Heine and Ludwig Borne, both
unfaltering champions of freedom. And even more conspicuously, there
was Karl Marx, one of the great prophetic geniuses of modern times.
"Jewish historians rarely mention the name of this man, Karl
Marx, though in his life and spirit he was far truer to the mission of
Israel than most of those who were forever talking of it. He was born
in Germany in 1818, and belonged to an old rabbinic family. He was not
himself reared as a Jew, however, but while still a child was baptized
a Christian by his father. Yet the rebel soul of the Jew flamed in him
thoughout his days, for he was always a 'troubler' in Europe."


"Then, of course, there are Ludwig Borne and Heinrich Heine, two
men who by their merciless wit and sarcasm became leaders among the
revolutionary writers. Karl Marx, Ferdinand Lassalle, Johann Jacoby,
Gabriel Riesser, Adolphe Cremieux, Signora Nathan- all these of Jewish
lineage played important roles in the struggle that went thoughout
Europe in this period. Wherever the war for human liberty was being
waged, whether in France, Germany, Austria, Hungary, or Italy, there
the Jew was to be found. It was little wonder that the enemies of
social progress, the monarchists and the Churchmen, came to speak of
the whole liberal movement as nothing but a Jewish plot."

The book "Soviet Russia and the Jews" by Gregor Aronson and
published by the American Jewish League Against Communism, quotes
Stalin in an interview in 1931 with the Jewish Telegraph Agency.
Stalin said:

"...Communists cannot be anything but outspoken enemies of
Anti-Semitism. We fight anti-Semites by the strongest methods in the
Soviet Union. Active anti-Semites are punished by death under the
law."

The following quotes are taken directly from documents available from
the
U.S. Archives:

State Department document 861.00/1757 sent May 2, 1918 by U.S. consul
general in Moscow, Summers: "Jews prominant in local Soviet
government, anti-Jewish feeling growing among population...."

State Department document 861.00/2205 was sent from Vladivostok on
July 5, 1918 by U.S. consul Caldwell: "Fifty percent of Soviet
government in each town consists of Jews of the worst type."

From the Headquarters of the American Expeditionary Forces, Siberia
on
March 1, 1919, comes this telegram from Omsk by Chief of Staff, Capt.
Montgomey Shuyler: "It is probably unwise to say this loudly in the
United States but the Bolshevik movement is and has been since it's
beginning, guided and controlled by Russian Jews of the greasiest
type"
type."

A second Schuyler telegram, dated June 9, 1919 from Vladivostok,
reports on the make-up of the presiding Soviet government:
"...(T)here
were 384 `commissars' including 2 negroes, 13 Russians, 15 Chinamen,
22 Armenians, AND MORE THAN 300 JEWS. Of the latter number, 264 had
come to Russia from the United States since the downfall of the
Imperial Government.

The Netherlands' ambassador in Russia, Oudendyke, confirmed this:
"Unless Bolshevism is nipped in the bud immediately, it is bound to
spread in one form or another over Europe and the whole world as it
is
organized and worked by Jews who have no nationality, and whose one
object is to destroy for their own ends the existing order of
things."
"The Bolshevik revolution in Russia was the work of Jewish brains, of
Jewish dissatisfaction, of Jewish planning, whose goal is to create a
new order in the world. What was performed in so excellent a way in
Russia, thanks to Jewish brains, and because of Jewish
dissatisfaction
and by Jewish planning, shall also, through the same Jewish mental an
physical forces, become a reality all over the world." (The American
Hebrew, September 10, 1920

"In the Bolshevik era, 52 percent of the membership of the Soviet
communist party was Jewish, though Jews comprised only 1.8 percent of
the total population." (Stuart Kahan, The Wolf of the Kremlin, p. 81)

Interestingly, one of the first acts by the Bolsheviks was to make
so-called "anti-Semitism" a capital crime. This is confirmed by
Stalin
himself:

"National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic
customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism,
as
an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige
of
cannibalism...under USSR law active anti-Semites are liable to the
death penalty." (Stalin, Collected Works, vol. 13, p. 30).


Here is a quote from Mein Kampf:

"Making an effort to overcome my natural reluctance, I tried
to
read articles of this nature published in the Marxist Press; but in
doing
so my aversion increased all the more. And then I set about learning
something of the people who wrote and published this mischievous
stuff.
From the publisher downwards, all of them were Jews. I recalled to
mind the
names of the public leaders of Marxism, and then I realized that most
of
them belonged to the Chosen Race- the Social Democratic
representatives in
the Imperial Cabinet as well as the secretaries if the Trades Unions
and
the street agitators. Everywhere the same sinister picture presented
itself. I shall never forget the row of names- Austerlitz, David,
Adler,
Ellonbogen, and others. One fact became quite evident to me. It was
that
this alien race held in its hands the leadership of that Social
Democratic
Party with whose minor representatives I had been disputing for
months
past."

Solzhenitsyn named in his book the six top administrators of the
Soviet death camps. All six of them were Jews.

Here is something the National Socialists wrote:

"The Soviet Union was in fact a paradise for one group: the Jews. Even
at times when for foreign policy reasons Jews were less evident in the
government, or when they ruled through straw men, the Jews were always
visible in the middle and lower levels of the administration."




http://www.nationalvanguard.org http://www.natvan.com
http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.RealNews247.com
Kenneth McVay OBC
2006-01-03 01:59:29 UTC
Permalink
[Churchill visits Berlin in the summer of 1932, staying at the Regina Hotel in
Munich. He is approached by Ernst 'Putzi' Hanfstaengl, a friend of Randolph
Churchill.]

The issue of German politics was raised almost immediately. Putzi offered to
introduce Winston to his idol. Nothing would be easier, he said; Hitler came to
the hotel every evening at five o'clock and would be delighted to meet so great
a British statesman. It was all arranged, and then Churchill disarranged it. He
asked Hanfstaingl: "Why is your chief so violent about the Jews? I can quite
understand being angry with Jews who have done wrong or who are against the
country, and I understand resisting them if they try to monopolise power in any
walk of life; but what is the sense of being against a man simply because of
his birth? How can any man help how he is born? Tell your boss for me that
anti-Semitism may be a good starter, but it is a bad stayer."

Putzi's face fell. The next day he solemnly informed Winston that the meeting
was off; Hitler had other plans. Since Churchill and his party remained at the
Regina for a full week with no further overtures, he concluded that his
disapproval of Nazi anti-Semitism had blacklisted him. So it had, but the story
has an interesting envoi. Hitler had told Hanfstaengl: "In any case, what part
does Churchill play? He is in the opposition and no one pays any attention to
him." Putzi shot back: "People said the same thing about you." (Manchester, 68)

Work Cited

Manchester, William. The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill. Alone
1932-1940," Little, Brown & Company, Boston, Toronto, London: 1988
--
"In the final analysis, one does not refute a closed system, a total
lie that is not refutable to the extent that its conclusions has
preceded any evidence." (Vidal-Naquet, Pierre. Assassins of Memory,
New York: Columbia University Press. p.81)
p***@aol.com
2005-12-29 22:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by kilgore trout
I think Russia was amply represented. Ilya
Ehrenburg was a Jew. In fact the communist party
was predominately Jewish.
No, the Communist Party was overwhelming Gentile, at all stages.

You repeat nonsense.
Post by kilgore trout
B TW there is a large body of evidence that the
Malmedy thing might have been an accidnet. They
were caught in a crossfire while being walked to
the reAR.
Nonsense. There is no such evidence.

--
Philip Mathews
Topaz
2006-01-01 01:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Bruno
No one except idiots claims six million were killed in gas chambers.
There were no gas chambers in the USSR, Warsaw, or Lodz. Jews there
were shot or starved to death.
Nonsense. Most of the research at Nuremberg was done by British and
American army personnel. Since Jews were tiny minorities in both these
countries, it is impossible for their armies to be dominated by large
numbers of Jews.
America and Britian are Jewish controlled countries. That is why they
are always involved in the Middle East.

Senator McCarthy, American Press, May 20th, 1949 (on Nuremberg trials)

"I have heard evidence and read documentary proofs to the effect that
the accused persons were beaten up, maltreated and physically tortured
by methods which could only be conceived by sick brains. They were
subjected to mock trials and pretended executions, they were told that
their families would be deprived of their ration cards. All these
things were carried out with the approval of the Public Prosecutor to
secure the psychological atmosphere necessary for the extortion of the
required confessions. If the United States lets such acts committed by
a few people go unpunished, then the whole world can rightly criticize
us severely and forever doubt the correctness of our motives and our
moral integrity."
Post by Joe Bruno
That's another lie. There were war crimes trials held after the
American Civil War and WWI.
War crimes committed by Americans or Brits or other Allies during the
war were dealt with in military court martials. That's what military
regulations are for.
Mr Vangel should take a look at the Uniform Code of Military Justice,
which governs the conduct of all American armed forces.
Jews govern the conduct of all American armed forces and everything
else in America.
Post by Joe Bruno
War Crimes trials of the losers can 't be held until you have defeated
them and have them in custody.
Nonsense.
Use of Slave labor violates the Hague convention
Mistreatment of pOWs(as at Malmedy) violates the Geneva Convention
Murder of unarmed civilians was not legal anywhere in Europe in 1939.
Allowing Jews to dominate a country is a violation of everything that
is good. The Germans removed the Jews from ruling over them. That is
what America needs to do:

Here are some quotes from a German pamphlet titled "Why the Aryan
Law?":
"In 1793 the famous philosopher Johann Gottlieb Fichte, author of
"Speeches to the German Nation," wrote a pamphlet titled "A
Contribution to Correcting Judgments about the French Revolution." It
contained the following significant sentence:
"In nearly all the nations of Europe, a powerful, hostile government
is growing, and is at war with all the others, and sometimes oppresses
the people in dreadful ways: It is Jewry!"
The French Revolution, with its "ideas for the improvement of
humanity" thundered past, and in the noise the people who had believed
in world brotherhood entirely missed this serious warning. What Fichte
warned the word about then has today become fact in nearly all the
nations of the world. The Jewish people, once only tolerated, knew how
to raise a hue and cry about discrimination and persecution, winning
the sympathy of the world for the "poor Jews." They increasingly
infiltrated deep within our national organism, growing to have power
over every single area of our national life. The old saga, the "Edda,"
observes that one blocks a river at its source. The failure to do that
was the great mistake of the German people. Thank God, it is not too
late. Our Fuehrer Adolf Hitler recognized the importance of the
problem for Germany's rebirth, and outlined its solution in his
program.
Martin Luther wrote this of the Jews in his book "The Jews and their
Lies": "They hold we Christians captive in our own land. They have
seized our goods by their cursed usury, they mock and insult us
because we work. They are our lords, and we and our goods belong to
them." If in the coming days the Jewish race is driven out of the
non-Jewish world, it will have at least this consolation: It has made
clear to them for all time the value of maintaining the purity of race
and blood in clear, understandable and unforgettable ways.
National Socialist racial legislation has reduced the influence of
Jewry in all professions, and above all excluded them from the leading
offices of the nation. That is an important step in the relationship
between Germans and Jews, but one cannot ignore the fact that we have
not yet fully eliminated the influence of the Jewish foreign body in
German national life. It is not a question of German-Jewish
coexistence, rather of making as great as possible a separation
between blood and blood.
Three things are involved here:
A knowledge of the basic principles of National Socialist racial
thinking,
An understanding of the growth and expansion of Jewry,
The dominant sociological position of Jewry, to show how it dominated
the German people economically, intellectually and politically..."
"In discussing the Jewish Question, even today one encounters
resistance and misunderstandings, especially in intellectual circles.
This can only be explained by the intellectual education of the
political past. This is especially evident when one discusses the
fundamental issues.
Whenever a new thought arises in the world and calls people to
practical action, the old world resists because it feels its
foundations threatened. Its old standpoint has ruled for decades, and
it looks uncomprehendingly at a new idea that does not fit into the
accustomed patterns of thinking. That is natural. When the new idea
and worldview are truly revolutionary, they are on a different level
of human thought and feeling, and there can be no compromise. Its
realization depends on people who support it, and who are ready to
fight to transform the life of the individual and of the nation in
every way..."
"In the long run, no idea is better suited to guarantee peace between
nations than National Socialist racial thinking, which calls for the
furtherance and maintenance of one's own race and one's own people,
and supports similar efforts on the part of other nations..."
"The new Germany that views its own race and ethnicity positively must
therefore distinguish within its territory between one race and
another, between one people and another. Mixing of blood harms both
sides. Race is an issue for every people if they are to live according
to their nature. The German people is not so arrogant as to believe
that is is the chosen people. The familiar quotation from Geibel, "The
world should enjoy German ways," should be understood in the context
of the dreams of world betterment of those past days.
The National Socialist racial viewpoint has clear consequences for the
relationship between Germans and Jews. People have often said that
National Socialism's approach to the racial question is purely
negative and destructive, and that its essential characteristic is
radical anti-Semitism. One must grant that we made the Jewish question
clearer than anyone else, and taught an entire generation that had
been taught to see all people the same to recognize the importance of
the Jewish question not only for our people, but for the entire world.
Our treatment of the Jewish problem in the years before we took power
must be seen as the political education of the German people, which
had lost its racial instincts to a dangerous degree.
The question took on its own nature in Germany, Many citizens had
their eyes opened, and the simultaneous appeal to all the heroic and
manly virtues of the German man resulted in a racial selection of
political fighters who today stand at the head of the new state.
Formerly, the Jewish question, as seen by the state, was a matter of
complete equality and the unhindered immigration of Jews from the
East. This is the best proof of how racial feeling and consciousness
had been lost. Our tone was not purely negative or the simple
rejection of others, rather the emphasis was on the positive values of
our own people. This does require noting that Jewry through its
Marxist class struggle leadership role and its international financial
measures aimed at Germany supported every kind of anti-national action
in the cultural and political fields. Jewry should not complain if its
anti-German activities, which have no counterpart in any other
country, call forth from the people the defensive reaction of
anti-Semitism.
The starting point of the discussion is the scientific fact that the
Jew is different than the German. This is neither arrogant nor
boastful, it simply is the way things are. For us, the Jewish question
is a question between two peoples. Its characteristics are determined
by the racially determined differences between the two, and through
the unusual sociological and numerical development of Jewry in the
course of its history, developments that are particularly evident in
the last decades through a constantly growing process of foreign
infiltration that has reached an intolerable level for the German
people.
More than once over its history, the German people has absorbed
foreign elements, but they were racially identical or similar
population groups, as for example was the case with the Huguenots.
With the Jews, things are fundamentally different. They are seen
everywhere as foreigners, and see themselves that way as well. Walter
Rathenau said it most clearly as early as 1897: "How strange! In the
middle of German life there is a separate, foreign tribe that stands
out in every way with its hot-tempered behavior. An Asiatic horde has
settled on the sands of Mark Brandenburg." Einstein said something in
1931: "I have to laugh when I hear the phrase 'German citizen of the
Jewish faith.' These citizens first of all want nothing to do with my
poor Eastern European brothers, and second do not want to be sons of
my (Jewish) people, but only members of the Jewish cultural community.
Is that honest? Can a non-Jew respect such people? I am not a German
citizen. I am a Jew, and am happy to belong to the Jewish people."
The most remarkable thing about Jewry is that it has not disappeared
over the millennia, even though it lacks its own territory and
language. Even more remarkable is that it lacks the main
characteristic of a minority population, its own pockets of settlement
to which it could if necessary retreat. Only time will tell if
Palestine will someday fill this gap. That question is made more
difficult by the fact that the Arabs maintain their claim on
Palestine. Whatever the twists of history, the Jew has always remained
the same, whether as a grain speculator in ancient Rome or as a bank
or stock exchange potentate in the modern era. They were always able
to control the wealth of whole nations. Nations and peoples once their
contemporaries have vanished, leaving only words and crumbled
monuments behind; only the Jew remains. In ancient days we see him
carrying on his business in the trading centers of the Mediterranean.
In the Middle Ages he provided money for German nobles and free
cities. Today he rules the banks and stock exchanges of the whole
world, forcing the nations under the yoke of financial capitalism. The
power of this people of 15 million rests on these international
relations. This is how they seem to fulfill the commandment of Jehovah
- the world domination of the chosen people.
The secret of the Jewish people, which has enabled them to survive
through all of history's twists and turns, is that it has always
recognized the laws of blood, even anchoring them in the laws of its
religion. The consciousness of blood and family that believing Jews
have has been stronger than all the other forces of history, giving us
a unique example of a people without its own land and language, which
still meets the criteria for being a people, and which has outlasted
many other peoples.
This historic manifestation of Jewry, which is unique, brings to the
fore the question of the relationship between the host and guest
peoples. It has been answered in differing ways throughout history,
depending on the worldview and thinking then predominant.
Since the Jews were dispersed they have been held together by the laws
of their religion and their faith that they were the chosen people.
Until the middle of the 18th Century, Germans and Jews lived apart
from each other. The Jews had no opportunity to become involved in the
religious of political-intellectual life of their host people. On the
other hand, they could practice their own customs without
interference. They had their own religion and their own laws. During
the Middle Ages, the Ghetto was the way Jewry could maintain itself in
the midst of other peoples and fulfill its Jewish duties, which grew
out of its race, origins and laws. The values and ideals of other
peoples were not affected. This separation was only possible because
the views of the host people were as strong as those of the Jews.
According to the writer Grau: "There was no racial defilement or
baptism, no attempt to join a nation that one could never be a member
of, and no attempt to intellectually silence the host people." In the
Ghetto of the Middle Ages, the Jew developed his nature and
characteristics, which were later to become significant, while
maintaining the community of blood and race. The latter is
particularly important, since the strict physical separation between
the host and guest peoples maintained the foreign nature that we daily
see so clearly, now that the barriers between have long since fallen.
Even in the Middle Ages, the most important thing was not the
difference between the Christian and Mosaic faiths. Rather, there was
on the one hand the natural sense that the Jew was of a foreign race,
and on the other hand the strict law of blood which demanded a clear
separation if the Jews were to fulfill Jehovah's mission, which had
guided them from the beginning. Just this has always been kept in the
background by historians, who present the Ghetto as a tolerated asylum
for Jewish martyrs persecuted on account of their faith. There is a
gap to be filled here. The task of historians writing from our new
viewpoint will be to examine the portrait of the Ghetto of the Middle
Ages to discover its importance for the development of Jewry and the
relationship between the guest and host peoples. Even the Jewish side
is demanding that. O. Karbach criticizes historical writing because it
"in significant ways conceals the historical fact that the Jews in the
centuries before their emancipation possessed a legal standing that
was better than the greater part of the rest of the population, namely
complete or partial agricultural freedom. (Ordnung in der Judenfrage,
edited by E. Czermak, Reinhold, Vienna, 1933).
The barriers between Germans and Jews fell as a result of the
Enlightenment and the French Revolution. The path to Jewish world
domination would take a different direction than pious, observant Jews
had expected. Emancipation made it possible to build Jewish dominance
through secular means. With the disappearance of racial consciousness,
only religious differences seemed to remain. It seemed at the time
unjust to give someone a preferred position only because of his
religious beliefs, which are an entirely personal matter. At the time,
this was tied to a belief in human equality and freedom. It was
revolutionary. It shattered the church dogmas that had ruled for
centuries and was the foundation of liberal thinking during the last
two hundred years. The new goal was humanity itself, and nothing stood
in the way of racial mixing. Some had the quiet hope that assimilation
would mean the absorption of Jewry. Jewry itself, however, was more
than willing to use the opportunities of religious assimilation, which
opened the path to all important positions, even to political
leadership. As H. Heine said, "baptism was the ticket to European
culture." Gradually, an intermixing with the German people developed,
particularly in its cultural elite. Foreign blood infiltrated to a
degree that we realize only today now that the "Law to Reestablish a
Professional Bureaucracy" has exposed numerous sources of foreign
blood. This process has greatly accelerated during the last fourteen
years.
Today the age of raceless thinking is being displaced by the ideals of
human variability. Values are rooted in origin and territory, and each
group has a historic mission based on its own unique and eternal
values. Such new racial thinking will of course secure the opposition
of those who either through faith or reason still believe in the unity
of humanity in culture, social order and organization. The Jews will
naturally oppose any discussion of race, since the denial of any
significant differences between people is the foundation of his
infiltration of Western European society. The Jew finds any mention of
the racial question as an attack on his current existence. His leading
role in every anti-national area is characteristic of his mimicry, and
is necessary for his continued existence. That explains the phrase
"German citizen of the Jewish faith."
The recognition that the Jew is of a foreign and different race along
with the reawakening of German racial consciousness must necessarily
lead to a change in the relations between Germans and Jews.
There is one point to keep in mind before examining the statistics.
Only those people who claimed to be Jews and were members of the
Mosaic faith were counted as Jews, not those who for internal or
external reasons belonged to another religion, or those who claimed to
be dissident Jews and therefore did not belong to the standard groups.
This is regrettable for our purposes, since we are interested not in
the influence of those who still claimed the Jewish religion, rather
those who belonged to the Jewish race! That includes all Jews, whether
of the Mosaic faith or baptized Christians. That is just what the
supporters of the Talmud and the Old Testament always said. They
complained that the state opened all offices to those "without
character," to "Christmas Jews," even admitting them to the officer
corps! The statistics given here must therefore be increased
significantly. The Jews are a race, and baptism does not in any way
change the foreign characteristics that are hostile to the German
people..."
Of course, the intellectual atmosphere that enabled the Jew to
infiltrate the German body politic quickly led the Jew himself to see
that conditions for his advancement were favorable, and that the way
to the top was open. He also realized what the population statistics
meant, indeed they were particularly clear to him, since 2/3 of his
kind lived in the big cities, the centers of the liberal worldview..."
"Nothing shows the differences between our people and the Jews more
clearly than their likes and dislikes for certain occupations. In some
occupations, particularly those that are most important for the nation
as a whole, the foreign influence on German life has reached an
intolerable extent not seen elsewhere in Europe. The preference for
certain occupations also gives us an interesting insight into the
spiritual nature of Jewry.
The following figures show how much critical occupations in Germany
have been infiltrated.
112,188 Jews, or 58.8%, far more than half, are employed in the area
of "commerce and transportation, including restaurants and taverns,"
but only 17.11% (3,248,145) of the population as a whole. In the area
of "industry and craft work, including mining and construction,"
19,318 Jews (25.85%) were employed, including 31.82% of foreigners.
For the population as a whole, the figure was 40.94% (7,771,799).
The figures in the field of "public administration, the judiciary, the
army and navy, churches, legal professionals and the independent
professions." 11,324 Jews were employed there, or 5.94% , over against
921,048 (4.85%) in the general population..."
In 1925, 0.81% of Jews were active as civil servants and the army and
navy, as opposed to 2.3% of the general population. In the church,
religious occupations, the legal system and the other independent
professions, the Jewish percentage is 4.3% as opposed to 2% of the
general population. This shows that the Jews are over-represented when
compared to the general population, particularly in the independent
professions.
The percentage of the Jewish population in government positions may
seem less than that of the general population, but the difference is
not as great as the figures first suggest. The most recent figures,
not yet entirely complete, suggest that a not insignificant number of
them are baptized Jews or dissidents formerly of the Jewish faith who
denied their Jewishness to gain an official position.
4.35% of Jews are employed in the medical and health care system,
including welfare, and 2.0% of foreign Jews. The figure for the
general population is 1.88%. The Jewish percentage is thus 2 1/2 times
as high as that of the general population.
In summary, Jewish occupational patterns differ from those of the rest
of the population. Jewry seems to have an aversion to agricultural
work, industrial labor and crafts. They are greatly over-represented
in commerce and transportation, including the entire banking system.
They are also over-represented in the independent professions and the
health care system. These figures alone demonstrate a clear difference
between the native German population and alien Jewry.
Very similar conditions prevail in all Western European nations and
also in North America, since Jews have spread throughout the world in
areas with growing industry and in cities that are centers of economic
and financial power. It is not true, as is often claimed, that the Jew
was systematically forced into commerce by the laws of the various
nations; rather, commerce particularly suits the Jew's nature. This is
supported by Dr. Arthur Ruppin, a scholar respected by the Jews. He
writes in his book The Jews of the Present (2nd edition, Cologne and
Leipzig, 1911, p. 45):
"Thanks to their significant commercial gifts (!), the Jews soon
enjoyed great success in commerce and industry. For 2000 years they
have seemed predestined to work in commerce. It is false to claim, as
some do, that Jews became merchants primarily because the Christians
denied them other occupations during the Middle Ages. The Jews did not
become merchants in Europe, rather they entered the profession in
growing numbers ever since the Babylonian Captivity in Syria, Egypt
and Babylon [because they dislike labor and prefer to have others work
for them! The Editor]. In Palestine until the dispersion they did live
primarily by agriculture. In the Diaspora, there was hardly anywhere
that the Jews lived by agriculture. The Middle Ages did not make them
into merchants. It only affirmed legally that which history had
already established. It is after all the rule that economic laws
generally do not create new conditions, but only legalize and regulate
that which already exists. The law would never have limited the Jews
to commerce in Europe if they had not already immigrated primarily as
merchants..."
Nearly all national economists agree that the Jews owe their role as
merchants not to chance, but to their excellent abilities as
merchants. As W. Sombart wrote: "The Jewish race is by nature the
incarnation of the capitalism-mercantile spirit." (Der moderne
Kapitalismus, Vol. 2, p. 349. Leipzig, 1902). Many others agree..."
"Similarly differences in the relative proportion of Jews by the
self-employed are evident in the medical field, which employs 0.5% of
the general population but 2.8% of the Jews, nearly six times as many.
Similar statistics are found in the cultural area (theater, film,
radio, education, teaching, etc.). The 0.4% of the general population
are employed there, 2.6% of the Jews, also about six times as many.
In the area of public administration and the judiciary, the percentage
of Jews in high positions is 2.0%, over against 1.3% of the general
population, nearly twice as high. The significance of these figures
becomes clear that when one realizes that the 2.3% of professional
Jews in public administration and the judiciary are in a branch where
the Jewish percentage of employees is only 0.81%. That means that the
Jews are especially represented in the important positions that
influence the whole government and leading branches of the economy.."
"The statistics may be interesting. The Jewish workers included 11,406
in industry, 2,220 in commerce and transportation, and 726 in
agriculture.
The following figures show most clearly the different social structure
of Jewry in Prussia over against the general population, and reveal
clearly Jewry's leading role in public life:.."

"On 19 May 1933 Reich Chancellor Adolf Hitler gave an interview to
Bernard Ridder, an American journalist for the New York State
Newspaper. Discussing the Jewish Question in Germany, he said: "Should
I allow thousands of German-blooded people to be destroyed so that the
Jews can live and work in luxury while millions starve, falling victim
to Bolshevism out of desperation?"
Can the justice of his words be doubted when one recalls that,
according to the Prussian census of 16 June 1925 6.9% of all
independent pharmacists, 17.9% of all independent physicians, 4.8% of
all independent artists, 27% of all independent attorneys, 4.6% of
editors, 11% of theater directors, 7.5% of actors, and 14.8% of all
independent dentists were Jews! And these huge figures when the Jews
were only 1% of the population! Is that anything other than a
Jewdification of our entire cultural system?! And what would these
figures look like if one had had the ability to include baptized Jews
and dissidents?..."

"Berlin is the Jewish metropolis in Germany. The process of
Jewdification is considerably further along. That is understandable,
since one is in the immediate vicinity of the protective arms of
democracy and social democracy, where developments can occur
unhindered. Thus in Berlin on 16 June 1925 32.2% of the pharmacists
were Jews, as were 49.9% of the physicians, 7.5 of the graphic
artists, 50.2% of the attorneys, 8.5% of the editors, 14.2% of the
directors and theater heads, 12.3% of the actors and 37.5% of the
dentists.
These figures cry out for legal limitations on Jewry, and it is
surprising that former governments did not take the appropriate action
to tell the Jews "this far and no further."
The Jewish influence gave the rest of the world an entirely false
impression of the nature of the German people. Inside the Reich, they
poisoned the soul of the people, and all social and political
relationships. Until the national uprising, the leaders of the
National Socialist movement were persecuted, defamed and suppressed by
a system that was a willing tool in the hands of a foreign and
different race. The national revolution freed the German people from
this foreign influence, which had also dominated and ruined the German
press and public life in significant ways.
He who wants to understand the German revolution of 1933 must
understand that it had this goal: 'Germany must be governed by Germans
for Germans.' The central idea of the National Socialist revolution
was the longing of the German people to once more be master in every
area of its own life. As a great, confident people, we demand only
this of the other peoples: that they permit us, as their equals, to
govern ourselves as we wish and find our own way to happiness (Reich
Minister of the Interior Dr. Frick)..."

"The Jewdification of our colleges and universities over the years has
reached almost frightening proportions. We begin with a publication
from 1931. Karl Hoppmann, in his volume "On the State of Jewdification
in the Academic professions" found the following figures:
1. University of Berlin:
Medical faculty . . . . over 50%
Philosophical faculty . . . . 25%
2. University of Göttingen, 32% of the professors were Jewish:
Legal Faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .47.0%
Medical faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34.0%
Philosophical faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . .40.0%
Mathematics and Natural Sciences . . . 23.0%
3. University of Breslau
Legal Faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .30.0%
Medical faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37.0%
Philosophical faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25.0%
4. University of Frankfurt (Main)
Legal Faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .55.0%
Philosophical faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14.0%
Mathematics and Natural Sciences . . . 28.0%
Medical faculty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21.0%
Economics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28.0%
Jewry has a dominating role on the stock exchange. The board of the
Berlin stock exchange is almost exclusively Jewish. In the various
committees, the percentage of the Jewish race is sometimes many times
as high as the Aryan. The committees include:
That means that 117 or 147 members are Jews, or nearly 80%.
The extent of the Jewdification of German theater and film is evident
from 1931 figures. Of 234 theater directors, 118 (50.4%) were Jews, 92
(39.3%) were non-Jewish.
Berlin led in this area as well, with 23 of 29 theater directors (80%)
Jewish.
The situation in film is similar. The Viennese Catholic periodical
"Schönere Zukunft," which certainly cannot be accused of
anti-Semitism, wrote the following in its 3 February 1929 issue:
"The percentage of Jewry in today's film industry is so high, at least
by us in Germany, that there is only a tiny part left for Christian
firms."

Jewry has long sought political influence as well. This formerly
happened in covert ways, mostly through direct or indirect control of
money matters. Nearly every noble once had his financial Jew. Since
1848, the birth of political parties in Germany, Jewry has openly
sought to become a political power. The Jew Marx was the founder of
Marxist doctrine, the Jew Lassalle was the founder of the Social
Democratic Party. The founders of the Independent Social Democratic
Party of Germany were the Jews Bernstein, Haase, Kautsky, Hilferding,
Cohn, Davidsohn, Simon, Rosenfeld, Eisner, Levi, etc. Carl Liebknecht
and Rosa Luxemberg were the leaders of the Communist Party, and
recently the Jews Rosenfeld and Seydewitz founded the Socialist
Workers Party. Jews sat in the press offices and the various editorial
offices of party newspapers, and above all in the various
parliamentary factions..."

"We think it necessary to mention that the Communist wave that
threatened to destroy Germany politically, economically and
intellectually can primarily be traced back to Jewry.
Is it any wonder that the Jew is arrogant? The greater the Jewish
influence the more secure they feel, and the more ominously and
clearly their character and goals becomes clear: Pride, intolerance
and superiority on the one hand, a drive for world domination on the
other. Several pointed Jewish statements are examples:
Hochmut: The familiar "Dorfgeschichte"-Auerbach says: "We Jews are the
most intelligent race." "We are the chosen ones," says Dr. Berhard
Cohn (Jüdisch-Politische Streitfragen, 20, 22). He continues: "We may
carry our head high and demand particular respect. We must not only be
treated equally, but better. We deserve the particular respect of
other peoples."
Rabbi Dr. Rulf wrote a book ("Aruchas bar-Ammni," Israel's Healing,
Frankfurt a. M. 1883) in which he says: "The Jewish people is a
blessing for all peoples. The blessing has followed on the heels of
the Jews. A whole world lives from the Jews, who feed everyone, and
everywhere spread wealth and pleasure, comfort and prosperity. Only
the commerce of the Jews creates value. Work alone does not do that.
Half of the world's population would starve without the Jews."
The Jew Dr. Duschak wrote: "The world could not exist without the
Jews." The well-known Jew Sacher-Masoch explained the hatred of
anti-Semites against the Jews in this way: It is the same hatred a
Negro feels against the whites because of their superiority.
That the Jews even went so far as to suggest to Bismark that he make
the Jewish Day of Atonement a national holiday is certainly no sign of
modesty.
Intolerance: The Jew Klausner (Society, edited by Conrad, Volume 12)
wrote: "Anti-Semitism and criminality are nearly the same thing. There
are criminals who were not anti-Semites, but no anti-Semites who were
not criminals."
The work by Dr. E. Fuchs. "The Future of the Jews," (Berlin,
Philo-Verlag, 1924) judges our greatest historians, Hartmann and
Treitschke, who see the Jews as our misfortune: "Men blinded by
prejudice and hatred. Small, tiny men."
World Domination: The Jewish attorney Maurthner in Vienna said back in
the 1880's: "It is not just a matter of fighting anti-Semitism. We
want to oppose it with Jewish domination!"
They made the attempt. If the German people had not recovered their
senses at the last moment, and if they had not had a Fuehrer and
Chancellor named Adolf Hitler who recognized the danger and woke the
German people, we would have fallen into slavery. As we have already
noted, the Jew has always known how to rouse sympathy when things were
rough for him. Consider this report from the meeting of the PEN Club
in Ragusa at the end of May of last year: "Schalom Asch in his keynote
address noted that the suffering of the Jews in Germany had aroused
the sympathy of the entire world. Only the German government remained
untouched. He claimed the Jews has given Germany its deepest thoughts,
its most beautiful songs, its greatest poets, artists and
philosophers. Today one had crucified them in Germany and covered them
with their own blood." Mr. Schalom Asch began crying in the midst of
these outrageous lies. He spoke in the hope that his words would be
heard for the sake of justice and humanity throughout the world.
The Jew Asch cries! The German people are not moved. They want no
torture or persecution, but also no unjustified sympathy, only
justice! Remember always the worlds of Field Marshall Moltke: "The Jew
is a state within the state." Remember also the works of our great
historian Mommsen: "In antiquity too the Jew was the ferment of
cosmopolitanism and national decomposition." And remember Goethe: "The
Israelites have never done much; they possess few virtues, and most of
the deficiencies of other peoples!"
The Racial Question has an important role in the laws of other
nations, though other peoples and races are affected than in the
German Reich. It is in no way new or unusual that the German Reich is
active in this area. Contrary to opinions that surface here and there,
our laws are in no way directed against the Jewish religion, its
practice, or the freedom of the Jewish faith.
The German Reich has done nothing but introduce constitutional
legislation to provide the kind of civil service necessary to
guarantee the secure administration of the Reich. The laws do not
render it impossible for a citizen of a foreign state to become a
civil servant. Indeed, if he is appointed to such a position, he
receives full citizenship in the Reich. German civil servants should
however be of Aryan descent. The so-called Aryan Law requires that
each civil servant be of German blood. Since the vast majority of
non-Aryan civil servants were Jews, the first guidelines to the law
paid particular attention to those who were members of the Jewish
race. But we did not simply throw out the non-Aryan civil servants,
but retired them with honor and a pension. The people's state could
hardly proceed in a more legal and mild manner. Germany did not want
to attack Jewry wildly, rather only deal with its results, is clear
from the fact that the Law of 7 April 1933 left untouched all
non-Aryan civil servants who had been appointed before 1 August 1914,
and by the fact that the private sphere not affected. Some complain
that the law extends to half and quarter Aryans. The answer is that
the foreign influence in the civil service had grown to such a
dangerous extent that it was almost impossible for young Germans to
enter these professions." (Reich Minister of the Interior Dr.
Frick..."


http://www.nationalvanguard.org http://www.natvan.com
http://www.thebirdman.org http://www.RealNews247.com
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
2005-12-25 01:12:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general429.html
The Holocaust: Who Was Responsible?
June 1995
By Rick Ross
Why did Germans willingly cooperate, support or passively stand by as
six million Jews were exterminated? According to Daniel Goldhagen
author of a new book Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans
and the Holocaust, their mindset was virtually a national psychosis and
Hell - america has killed over a million iraqi civilians in the last 15
years and americans love it. And america killed 2 million vietnamese
civies in the 60s and 70s and millions of japanese and german civies in
WW2. Nobody bitched about that either. Americans love holocausts even
more than the krauts do.
h***@earthlink.net
2005-12-25 03:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Goldhagen is Jewish isn't he--so that settles the issue.

Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com

Friedrich P.(pagan) Berg
p***@comcast.net
2005-12-25 03:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@earthlink.net
Goldhagen is Jewish isn't he--so that settles the issue.
That settles nothing, senile old Nazi.

--
Philip Mathews
Xtraldafar
2005-12-26 15:38:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Dufour
http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general429.html
The Holocaust: Who Was Responsible?
many historians including Ernst Zundel and David Irving subscribe to the
latest theory that is was a lemming-like mass suicide that was blamed on the
people of Germany as a giant money grab.

It was also an exaggeration because, as everyone knows, there were only 60
Jews in all of Europe from the period 1933 to 1944. We must work diligently
to expose the big Jew lie.
DAVE LUBIN
2005-12-30 06:16:46 UTC
Permalink
Your comments started out well, but, sorrowfully, morphed into a
tirade against every known radical group or movement in the U.S.A. The
U.S. is not nor has it ever been a racist country, and any Americans who
take some "sick" comfort in repeating this lie, for what ever reason,
are doing an injustice to it and their own heritage.
Over and over, throughout its history, this country has purged itself of
the racism that consumed certain individuals, geographic areas and
indigenous organizations (the South, KKK) Unlike Germany, the U.S.
never held racism as a national ideal. It never federally espoused,
fomented or institutionalized racism, as Germany did. To the contrary,
our federal government took up arms against it in the great Civil War.
Waged legal war against racism in many Supreme Court decisions. Our
National Guard enforced these decisions. Nazi Germany, however, was a
huge racist 'factory'. . It waged war against Jews, other religious
minorities, gypsies, and homosexuals, through the use of it courts,
police and its military. It sent millions and millions to the ovens,
and 'showers'. We must not, as Americans, ever give
in to the insanity of equating or comparing racism in our society
with that of Nazi Germany. To do so trivializes and dilutes the
stupendous horrors done by Germany, emboldens all Neo Nazis, encourages
and supports anti-American communist propaganda and, most important,
diminishes the lessons the holocaust teaches the modern world.
What say you?

Dave
Larry Caldwell
2005-12-31 20:47:06 UTC
Permalink
It went on for quite a while, but my vote would go to Hadrian.
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